Friday, September 6, 2013

Eve Online: Moon Mining Question

Currently moon mining is not allowed in wormholes, and the only reason that I've heard given why is that you have to control sovereignty of a system to be able to moon mine, and since you can't own SOV in low sec, wormholes, or high sec, then it's not allowed.

Eve does a decent job, IMO, at explaining why some things are allowed and why other things are forbidden within the mechanics of the game, but I have yet to hear any logical reason why moon mining can't be done in wormhole space, high sec, or even parts of low sec.

I truly understand that if moon mining was allowed throughout New Eden, including w-space, that it would drastically change a lot of the game, which I'm not necessarily pushing for. I'm mostly looking for a reason that makes sense.

I could understand if High Sec's excuse is "The Gallente Federation owns this system and they don't allow it, because they harvest it themselves", and that excuse would be sufficient for me.

I am at a loss for why moon mining isn't allowed in W-Space though. They "could" use the reason of "sleepers will destroy any moon mining" or something like that, but if you use that reason then it would only make sense that other NPC rats would/could attack POS towers all over the galaxy.

Ultimately I think any POS in ANY system is vulnerable so nobody should feel safe, even in high sec. I think if it's able to be anchored to a moon, then moon mining should be allowed (unless forbidden by who owns the system). Or maybe moon mining could be allowed in High sec, but the whoever owns the system will take X% of whatever is mined. Also the moon goo in high sec could be horrible or sparse, and not even worth mining, kind of like the planetary interaction in high sec, but at least it's allowed.

Have you heard any good reasons why it isn't allowed?

Do you think it should be allowed, but moderated like ore values or planet resources so as to not flood the market?


  1. A few corrections:

    1. You can put a POS up in sovereign space. You don't need to own the space to do it. You won't get a discount on your fuel costs, and the owner of the space will get a notification when the tower goes up.

    2. You can moon mine in 0.3 security and lower systems. There are many valuable moons in lowsec, which are fought over.


    3. The idea of having ice belts, moon minerals etc in W-Space has been brought up on the forums many times. You can read all the discussions on it.

    The short answer is before Odyssey, moon minerals were the primary form of income for large alliances. If W-Space had moon minerals, you'd have a huge influx of large alliance members invading W-Space and setting up shop.

    Not having moon minerals kept W-Space accessible to smaller alliances and corporations.

    1. 1. Thanks for the feedback. I never said you couldn't set up a POS in various places, just that sov could only be taken in certain types of space.

      2. You're correct about 0.3, I read that before I wrote this post, but apparently I left that out, thanks for the correction on that.

      I definitely don't want huge alliances invading w-space, and I know by adding moon mining that is exactly what would happen. I just wish I understood "why" it's not allowed.

      Simply stating it's the primary source of income for huge alliances isn't enough justification to set a game mechanic in my opinion, since I'm sure the alliances would adjust if the mechanics of the game adjusted.

      I'm just not a fan of "because I said so" or "that's just the way it is" mechanics.

    2. The reason given - of being a way to make w-space less attractive to the big null-sec groups - is the answer to your question. Or, to put it another way, it's a balance issue. Many, many, many game mechanics that otherwise make no sense (in any game, EvE is no exception) are put in place because of game balance issues.

      In many ways, the reason why moon mining is not allowed in w-space is very similar to why rats give bounties in null-sec. Null-sec is outside the empires' jurisdiction, so Concord would have no reason to care what goes on out there - in fact, they don't, as nothing done in null negatively affects sec status - but yet we get Concord bounties and sec status gain from ratting in extra-territorial space. Why? Game balance. The folks living in null who don't want to engage in mining or exploration must have some source of income.

    3. I get the balance explanation, and I guess that's just the way it has to be.

      As for bounties in null sec, I don't really agree with your assessment. All the NPC's (other than sleepers) have a presence in high sec. Hell, the Sansha have incursions and massively invade high sec.

      If you ever run missions, you can encounter any of the NPC's (other than sleepers) in your high sec missions, and to me, that's why you get bounties on NPC's even if they are in Null Sec, because CONCORD doesn't care where they live, they have a bounty on their asses.

      I would compare it to the old west days, a bandit commits a crime in a town (robs a bank or something), the sheriff or law body places a bounty on that bandit, and even if that bandit runs away and crosses multiple states, if someone finds captures/kills that bandit, the bounty is paid. Even if it's far far away from where the law of that town extends to.

      Just my two cents on that.

      I guess I'll just have to live with the balance explanation though, and I do understand the balance it creates but I was hoping for a more scientific or logical reason.

    4. Oh, how I wish we could moon mine in in w-space (sigh).

      I do, though, take umbrage with your assertion that balance is not a logical reason :) It just doesn't have any in-game reason, but it's still logical (though I like Sugar's suggestion of why there's no moon goo in w-space).

    5. Yeah, I fully understand that it would change everything as we know it, which I'm not pushing for in the slightest.

      Sometimes balance is the only reason needed :)

  2. I'll move one step back. Wormholes were never meant to be lived in. Players made that choice and CCP who did not expect it let them.

    CCPs vision of wormholes and their use and player created interactions with wormholes are a bit different. Then organic nature I'd players thinking outside of the box makes wormhole space interesting but limited.

    Let's give a storyline excuse. Where is that system? Maybe the minerals we mine are not present in those moons.

    But balance? You would shatter T2 production and the market if people could putter away sucking up Mon too in wormhole space.

    Moons are a huge commodity with massive amounts of resources leveraged to take, hold, and use them. Wormhole space restrictions would nip that in the bed and devalue moongoo over night.

    Living in wormhole space means choosing those restrictions as clearly as I choose outlaw sec status. And like my sec status I can work in its restrictions or I can change what I do.

    As for bounties in null it bugs me. Best sec gain and best bounties in a part of space so lawless they don't take sec hits.

    Welcome to the walls of the sandbox. They exist.

    1. Thanks Sugar. I definitely wasn't trying to propose that moon mining should be allowed, I understand that it would shatter Eve at it's core. (not to say that's a good thing or bad thing, but it would be serious chaos).

      I fully accept that living in wormhole space means I have to live with the pros/cons that come along with it, and if I don't like it, move.

      I like your storyline justification that far distant moons (wherever the wormhole happens to be) just don't provide the type of minerals/materials that known space does. and the tools/extractors that we use cannot extract the resources. I'd be ok with that reason personally.